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Allen Bauer sheds more light on the goal of the 64-bit support level for Delphi, and the goal of the x64 Delphi and x64 C++ release time frames

Posted by jpluimers on 2010/08/17

On the Embarcadero forum, Jolyon Smith asked about the underlying meaning of the 64-bit Pulsar statements in the updated Roadmap.
He did not ask for an exact date, but what level of 64-support is the current goal.

Allen Bauer (Chief Scientist at Embarcadero) was kind enough to put up a few answers.

A few quotes are below, please read the full thread titled Embarcadero Discussion Forums: Roadmap: Clarification Required Please … for the exact answers.
It basically boils down to this:

  • The goal of the “64-bit implementation” in Pulsar is to have a fully capable and fully integrated Win64 Delphi compiler, debugger and VCL.
  • The goal is to deliver Pulsar (x64 Delphi) sometime in 2011, and Commodore (x64 C++) somewhere in 2012.

Jolyon already posted a small excerpt that includes the first point.
I think the second point is a very important one too.

Quotes

from Allen’s postings the forum:

Goal of the 64-bit level in Delphi “Pulsar”:

Allen Bauer

Posts: 606
Registered: 9/27/99

Re: Roadmap: Clarification Required Please
Helpful
Posted: Aug 15, 2010 4:03 PM in response to: Jolyon Smithin response to: Jolyon Smith

Jolyon Smith wrote:

Pinning us down to an exact date isn’t going to happen.

The question does not ask for an exact date, it asks for

clarification of what level of 64-bit capability is

expected/intended/anticipated in each of the 3 identified milestones

on the roadmap:

– Pulsar

– Wheelhouse

– Commodore

This clarification is required because of some woolly and apparently

contradictory language in the roadmap that is presumably supposed to

tell us this information – again, clarification of date is not being

asked for, rather clarification of content.

Ah, ok. Sorry. I’ve been answering so many questions that they’re all

beginning to sound the same.

Even more specifically: Does “64-bit implementation” in Pulsar mean

a fully capable and fully integrated Win64 Delphi compiler, debugger

and VCL ?

Yes. That is the goal. I would say that anything less would be more a

“preview” than an actual sellable product.


Allen Bauer
Embarcadero Chief Scientist
http://blogs.embarcadero.com/abauer

Timeline goal of 64-bit Delphi and 64-bit C++:

Allen Bauer

Posts: 606
Registered: 9/27/99

Re: Roadmap: Clarification Required Please
Posted: Aug 15, 2010 3:04 PM   in response to: Jolyon Smith in response to: Jolyon Smith

Jolyon Smith wrote:

Allen Bauer
Embarcadero Chief Scientist
http://blogs.embarcadero.com/abauer

Care to answer the question and clarify the roadmap?

Just how far along is this party?

Pinning us down to an exact date isn’t going to happen. Someplace in
another thread, I’ve already stated that our goal is to deliver 64bit
Delphi sometime in 2011 and 64bit C++ in 2012.


Allen Bauer
Embarcadero Chief Scientist
http://blogs.embarcadero.com/abauer

I know those are goals, and some goals can slip (It companies are infamous for that).
The above goals however, is a very nice clarification for things a lot some people found ‘vague’ in the current roadmap.

Thanks Jolyon for asking.
Thanks Allen for answering.

–jeroen

9 Responses to “Allen Bauer sheds more light on the goal of the 64-bit support level for Delphi, and the goal of the x64 Delphi and x64 C++ release time frames”

  1. Michael Thuma said

    @Alan -> Candlelight dinner – you are great:-). Hi Alan – do you feel good:-). Yes, Mike – I feel fine!

    From my experience even if Delphi would have 64bit you cannot stand this in an Microsoft Shop. The aim of Microsoft Shop is to fully support the stack on what comes with MS and anything else is not wanted and not appreiciated by MS. This is a little different view to Delphi of Java in Enterprise scenarios. In the MS world you fit into a company producing end user “mass” products specialized in a certain aspect of the OS or product feature. You fit maybe little better in the future into the Java on the serverside corner.

    An ex-colleague of mine 40 years IT experience origin IBM – almost introudced SAP in Austria – shares imho my experience – there will always come something and usually it takes time. No need to wait just do – or ignore the problem …

    btw: My Linux colleague here – I also call the racoon. So have something like an indirect offshore in Austria. (His name little more origins for mapachee which means raccon in Spanisch).

  2. “Pinning us down to an exact date isn’t going to happen. Someplace in another thread, I’ve already stated that our goal is to deliver 64bit Delphi sometime in 2011 and 64bit C++ in 2012.”

    We, paying customers, would like to know when our beloved tool will catch-up to modern standards. Is it too much to commit to a date as a company? It is not that you are looking for some esoteric untested never-before-seen feature. 64 bits along with other things is so much overdue.

    Embarcadero should be using a floodlight instead of a candle to shed more light on this and other over-promised and overdue features and needs. Sugar coating this next release with lots of side-attractions just won’t do to convince the bosses that Delphi is a viable tool.

    • jpluimers said

      I, as a paying customer for a lot of products, want to know a lot of things from other companies too (banks, anyone? plenty of other examples in the IT could do just as well).

      Sometimes, you have a bit of tough luck in your life.
      Think about the Delphi team, that has been struggling under the Borland management that squeezed every drop of blood out of it for years.
      They survived, got themselves a new owner, and now – step by step – are trying to come back.

      So Alan, please calm down just a tiny bit, and enjoy what is coming.

      –jeroen

      • Alan Fletcher said

        Jeroen,

        Let me reassure you that I am as cool as a cucumber sipping my cold coffee drink in very hot weather here in Seattle.. The problem is that other people are not. And statements like the ones issued by embarcadero do not help.

        While I can appreciate the embarcadero’s dev team conundrum, other people are not as patient. Is very hard to be one of two Delphi developers out of 340 + developers in a company that has declared it to be a “Microsoft Company”. These delays certainly don’t help the cause.

        The Delphi relationship is not a basis for comparing to Banks and others. I have a love affair with the pascal language. Same cannot be said about my bank, internet provider, or “favorite” airline.

        Cheers!,

        Alan

  3. Michael Thuma said

    A. Bouchez –> Yes but the concept of the LCL concening UNICODE and OS targets is only applicable if you cut one or two certain slices you need. I think the “delay” is not do to EMBs incability to provide a 64bit Windows compiler – I think they expected that more people would move to .net as they thougt after D7 people would jumpt on the .net 1.0 train. The point is
    a) Active X 64bit (somehow reintroducted with VS 2010)
    b) Migration of existing applications to 64bit.
    c) Fatal evolution of WCF into a just web service framework …
    d) breaking the whole Workflow stuff in Sharepoint
    –> This all impacts a lot a timeline and priorities.
    e)

    Other aspects of this delay come from no integration from the MS side of C/C++ with the GUI contols (very similar to C/C++ Builder X this approach does not work also if MS tries it) and their steady fallback into forcing more and more native aspects.

    Mike

  4. A. Bouchez said

    We asked for more technical details in https://forums.embarcadero.com/thread.jspa?threadID=41651.

    Even if the roadmap is not easy to follow, and an exact release date of the 64 bit compiler is hard to guess… we could at least have some low-level info about how we have to prepare our code to this compiler.

    Here is what I posted:

    Some other questions to Embarcadero:
    1. Will the Tag property become NativeInt?
    2. Is it a good idea to use NativeInt in loop index, to optimize code generation?
    3. In a more general way, what are the compiler guess about integerNativeInt conversion (for example in loops)?
    4. Are the other types (like Int32/UInt32) to be used anyway?
    5. How will the VCL use these types?
    6. Will the internal memory layout of low-level types change because of Win64 API change- for example in System.pas, TTextRec/TFileRec uses Handle: integer?
    7. Will the internal memory layout of low-level types change because of 64 bits CPU use – for example in System.pas, will the StrRec packed record and refCnt/length remain in longint? What will be the changes in low-level RTII generated?
    8. Will there be some conversion to PUREPASCAL or 64 bit asm of the asm functions in System.pas?

    It’ll be definitively a need to have at least a white paper, ASAP, which details how to write code for the 64 bits compiler, and which modifications have been made to the RTL and the VCL.

    Free Pascal Compiler generated 64 bit code for Windows in 2006. Embarcadero will be 5 to 6 years late… an eternity for the computer world!

    • jpluimers said

      It would be very nice if they deliver a 64-bit preview command-line compiler with a preview RTL (and maybe a slight part of the VCL) for the Delphi XE registered users.
      The Delphi team did a similar thing with Delphi 7: http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/28972
      Actually, Delphi XE gives me a similar feeling I had with Delphi 7; Delphi 7 didn’t have really breakthrough functionality when compared to Delphi 6 (see http://edn.embarcadero.com/article/images/28980/D7_whats_new.pdf)
      But Delphi 7 smoothed a lot of rough edges, made large improvements in productivity and contained a few very handy extra tools (Rave Reports, Model Maker and Kylix).
      My current feeling is that Delphi XE will do similar things: it will include Beyond Compare, Raize CodeSite, AQTime and RadPHP.

      –jeroen

  5. Ken Knopfli said

    I recall Borland/Inprise went through a phase where they decided on – was it annual? – well, on fixed regular release dates, to guarantee a steady revenue stream.

    It resulted in disappointing product releases.

    Better to release when it’s ready.

    It’s just that this 64-bit has been promised for so long and has always silently slipped in favour of projects that interest the Delphi community less (but possibly is important to Embi’s other product development?), so whilst Joylon’s cynical tone does make me wince, it is understandable.

    So this ballpark figure together with a definite declaration of intent is good.

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